Traveller-digest     Friday, September 3 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1051



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Inter species relationships
request for URLs with Traveller pictures 
Re: New Picture
Re: Ship Damage...Oh my! (was Lost Keith Supplements "refund") 
Ebay auction alert
Re: streamlining
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1048
FW: Inter species relationships (was: GT Armor - Cheaper Merchants, Faster Combat Craft)
Re: FW: Inter species relationships (was: GT Armor - Cheaper  Merchants, Faster Combat Craft)
Re: request for URLs with Traveller pictures 
Re: Lost Keith Supplements "refund" 
Re: Testing the Waters 
Pyramid
Re: New Picture
THUDDD anyone?
Re: THUDDD anyone?
Re: New Picture
Re: THUDDD anyone?
Re: I'm back....
Re: request for URLs with Traveller pictures
RE: Weather Control
tank:antitank arms race and current TL
Safety of low berths
RE: inter species relationships

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 23:03:15 -0700
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Inter species relationships

> From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Inter species relationships (was: GT Armor - Cheaper
> Merchants, Faster Combat Craft)

> Well, you could make some comment on the overall view of accepted 
> practices in the Imperium. Say, what would the overall view of 
> interspecies relationships? A guy and his Vargr ... well, we won't 

Larry Niven coined a word for it:  rishathra (if I recall correctly). 
It takes all kinds to make up known space, and who knows what sophonts
will find attractive and how they will be accepted by the various
societies.  

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 23:10:27 -0700
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net>
Subject: request for URLs with Traveller pictures 

Now that I'm working at a place with a newer computer than my own, I can
really appreciate the Traveller artwork that I've been reading about on
the list.  Would someone please post or email me a few URLs?  Thank you.

- --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 01:59:31 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: New Picture

Evyn MacDude wrote:
<<snip>>
> >
> > I like it.
> > Made me think of any anchorage in the Navy. Wpn. Techs working on the gun,
> > Deck Apes painting the hull,
> 
> Bosun Mate....  Damnit.

Plus (or, for the scut-work, mostly), of course, those fortunate
non-rates who have the joy of _reporting_ to the Boatswain's Mate....

Poor bastards....  ;-)

Makes me glad I joined the Army.  Of course, since I ended up
volunteering to fling my precious, one-to-a-customer body out of
reasonably-serviceable aircraft on a regular basis, my point of view may
be suspect.  *shrug*

Hmm.  I'll have to ask my Annapolis-grad cousin about the prevalence of
RPGs on his ship (I DMed AD&D for him many years ago...).

<<snip>>

- -- 
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 03:05:05 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: Ship Damage...Oh my! (was Lost Keith Supplements "refund") 

> >... actually it was the Space Patrol who fought off the
> >pirates...mostly by making our ship into swiss cheese...Eris has this
> >Accelerated Massive Debt plan for us, obviously.
> 
> Ah, I'm just giving you guys a chance to "customize" the ship. Let's see...the mainframe is slagged, the jump drive has a hole blown through it, the maneuver drive has chunks blown away, the life support system is dead, there are holes in fuel tanks, hull and hatches...oh, and somebody cracked the ship's safe and made off with a bit of your ready cash. Nothing that a little spit and baling wire won't fix. <eg>
> 
> Oh, and has anyone mentioned to you yet that the jump drive is an import from the Xtce system and there aren't any compatable parts for a half dozen parsecs? Muhahahaha!

No, you haven't mentioned that yet.

BTW, WTF *IS* Xtce????

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 03:26:30 EDT
From: GypsyComet@aol.com
Subject: Ebay auction alert

- --part1_8f5727cb.2500d226_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

FYI: There's a set of King Richard deckplans up on EBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=156756555

Good hunting

GC

- --part1_8f5727cb.2500d226_boundary
Content-Type: message/rfc822
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Return-path: MDTerrian@aol.com
From: MDTerrian@aol.com
Full-name: M DTerrian
Message-ID: <13f8cff8.2500ccfe@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 03:04:30 EDT
Subject: No Subject
To: GypsyComet@aol.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84

FYI: There's a set of King Richard deckplans up on EBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=156756555

Good hunting

- --part1_8f5727cb.2500d226_boundary--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 09:51:17 +0100
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: streamlining

At 23:59 02/09/1999 -0500, "John Majer" <jsmage@earthlink.net> wrote:
<snip>

>...It also depends on what you are trying to acheve;
>seeding clouds is one thing...

Don't ignore the value of seeding clouds.

I recall a TV interview a couple of years ago the the man resposible
for stopping (or at least minimising) the rain during Mayday parades
in Moscow.

Phil Kitching

- --
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 10:03:24 +0100
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1048

At 17:06 02/09/1999 -0700, Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:

>I think the worst Denny's situation was when Rich Starnes was declaiming
>to me (this was Arduin, where paladins could be any alignment so long as
>they matched their god and did everything to serve their god) as to
>exactly how good a paladin of Lucifer he was going to be and all the
>wonderful things he was going to do for his master.
>
>The little old ladies a table or two away did NOT understand that this was
>a game.  (It was my campaign, where the Luciferian Gnostics were a potent
>political force to be reckoned with...)

Imagine, if you will, a train. In one corner of a carriage sits an innocent 
bystander. His journey will be several hours but he has a good book to read
and a table to put his lunch on.

Elsewhere in the carriage, three friends recognise each other and decide to
join up - choosing the table of our innocent bystander.

One of them suggests a game to while away the journey. The unfortunate in
the corner tries desperately to read his book whilst the three friends play 
through a game of "Nuclear War". (All expansions and a full population deck.)

Phil Kitching
- --
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:06:08 +0800
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com>
Subject: FW: Inter species relationships (was: GT Armor - Cheaper Merchants, Faster Combat Craft)

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com] On Behalf Of Terry Mixon
Sent: Thursday, 2 September 1999 23:16
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
Subject: Re: Inter species relationships (was: GT Armor - Cheaper
Merchants, Faster Combat Craft)


- --- "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net> wrote:

> >I'm not gay but I am sure getting tired of the xenophobic attitude
> >in the
> >U.S. to things that aren't supported by the 'main' portion of the
> >population.
>
> Alright, no talk of our sexuality on this Traveller list. You know
> it's one
> of the seven deadly Traveller sins (among near-c rocks, piracy, jump
> physics, etc.).
>
> ObTrav: Uhm. What if I write "Traveller" again? Will that work?

Well, you could make some comment on the overall view of accepted
practices in the Imperium. Say, what would the overall view of
interspecies relationships? A guy and his Vargr ... well, we won't
use what I suspect might be the approriate noun. <g> And if there
are these relationships, does it make a better target for the
objecting and thus same sex relations become more acceptable?

If this is truely on the don't discuss list, please ignore.

Terry

Oh dear what do I do with my pirate base on that near c asteroid fitted with
a jump drive?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 05:35:30 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: FW: Inter species relationships (was: GT Armor - Cheaper  Merchants, Faster Combat Craft)

> Oh dear what do I do with my pirate base on that near c asteroid fitted with
> a jump drive?

If you're *smart*, you'll keep it away from female Aslans in comfortable 
shoes.

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 07:09:44 -0300
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: request for URLs with Traveller pictures 

At 11:10 PM 02/09/1999 -0700, you wrote:
>Now that I'm working at a place with a newer computer than my own, I can
>really appreciate the Traveller artwork that I've been reading about on
>the list.  Would someone please post or email me a few URLs?  Thank you.
>
>--Glenn

        "http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"
        "Artwork" button.

        Its all scanned images from the Traveller Book that I have colorized.
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
				ICQ # 31172292
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
	    NET-City Communications....
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 06:53:32 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: Lost Keith Supplements "refund" 

> > I am willing to make a "refund" for someone who got in on the full meal
> > deal.  If you are no longer interested in waiting for your order, let me
> > know and we'll make arrangements to swap my name for yours on the waiting
> > list.  I'll reimburse full price ($100) for one set.  Let me know ;-)
> 
> You'll have to pry mine out of my cold, dead
> hands...you...you...Swordworlder! <g>

Heheheh.
 
> You know, I enjoyed rereading LOM last weekend and Paul says this set
> will be better...OH BOY!  I'm hoping to run a campaign around those
> books.

Now you know why i *LOVE* Reavers' Deep so much.  It's a *great* place to 
hang out and shoot things.

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 06:59:52 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: Testing the Waters 

> At 01:01 PM 02/09/1999 -0500, you wrote:
> >You sure Cher *isn't* a Virus? <g>  And besides Virus is *supposed* to
> >bother you...oh, not that way? Okay. <weg>
> >
> >Seriously, I would have preferred a different solution than Virus, but
> >can suspend disbelief far enough to swallow it...if I have too.
> >
> >Eris
> >
>         Well, if what was "required" was The Cosmic Reset Switch,  its
> either going to have to be a genocide war, a biological virus/microbe or,
> well, Virus.

Thing is, the Rebellion was already a genocidal war.  Virus really wasn't 
needed, except to slamdunk *all* the Major Races in one swell foop.

>         Back when TNE first came out, someone posted a really interesting
> alternate time-line piece that involved two stars in the capital sector
> going collapsar at the same time...  which in turn deformed Jumpspace
> enought that planets no longer "were" where people thought they were for
> jump calculations... so, everything jumping anywhere instantly wound up
> splattered over the sector at the time it happened, and then everything else
> that tried to jump afterwards was pretty much automatically misjumping as
> everyone re-learned everything they knew about Jumpspace theory....
>         End of Navy.
>         End of Trade.
>         End of Imperium.
> 
>         It was a really nice narrative...  I can't remember the author, but
> I am sure it must be in the archives.

I'm gonna have to check that out someday when I get a couple spare moments...

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 07:51:06 EDT
From: Diespamer@aol.com
Subject: Pyramid

Greetings:

If you are a Pyramid subscriber, take a look this week...I got a notice that 
they've put up a GURPS-Travellerized version of the gas giant critters that 
appeared waaaaayyy back in JTAS!

Fred Kiesche
(Traveller Since 1977)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 04:57:13 -0700
From: "Wayne" <wewart@home.com>
Subject: Re: New Picture

> > Deck Apes painting the hull,
>
> Bosun Mate....  Damnit.
>
Well, I are a bos'n, and in the group we call are selfs Deck Apes, Eng. are
bilge rats, ect... And the proper name is Boatswain (Bosun Mate is on of the
jobs we do)

Wayne Ewart 0502 C588858 C N kk++ hi+ va++ dr+ so- zh+ da++ 734

CT/HG Templar Wanna-be

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 05:05:45 -0700
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net>
Subject: THUDDD anyone?

Ok, I've finished most of the needed changes to the 
new THUDDD site (http://THUDDD.homepage.com/).  
What's say we reopen the voting on the last 
competition (THUDDD 9).  NB:  If you want your vote 
counted, you will need to vote again (old votes have 
been lost) or cast one now.  The URL for voting is 
http://THUDDD.homepage.com/thuddd9.html.

While the votes are coming in, I would like to propose 
some possible designs.  Perhaps we could start with 
carried craft type designs.  Starting with lifeboats and 
working our way up to a shuttle.
- --
Sincerely,

Jason Barnabas



________________________________________________________
NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet.  Shouldn't you?
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 13:32:22 +0100
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: THUDDD anyone?

At 05:05 03/09/1999 -0700, you wrote:
>Ok, I've finished most of the needed changes to the 
>new THUDDD site (http://THUDDD.homepage.com/).  
>What's say we reopen the voting on the last 
>competition (THUDDD 9).  NB:  If you want your vote 
>counted, you will need to vote again (old votes have 
>been lost) or cast one now.  The URL for voting is 
>http://THUDDD.homepage.com/thuddd9.html.

I can remember being very erudite and considered in my
original review of the competing designs. Unfortunately,
I can't remember what I wrote.

:-(

Oh bother! You didn't add a late entry to the original list.

8-)

>While the votes are coming in, I would like to propose 
>some possible designs.  Perhaps we could start with 
>carried craft type designs.  Starting with lifeboats and 
>working our way up to a shuttle.

Sounds good

Phil Kitching
- --
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 10:42:23 -0300
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: New Picture

At 04:57 AM 03/09/1999 -0700, you wrote:
>
>> > Deck Apes painting the hull,
>>
>> Bosun Mate....  Damnit.
>>
>Well, I are a bos'n, and in the group we call are selfs Deck Apes, Eng. are
>bilge rats, ect... And the proper name is Boatswain (Bosun Mate is on of the
>jobs we do)
>
>Wayne Ewart 0502 C588858 C N kk++ hi+ va++ dr+ so- zh+ da++ 734
>
        Oh, come now, Wayne...  you've been in the Mob long enough to know
we're all Bos'n's....  some of us just have hobbies on the side unlike you
purists...

        --Michel
        ("Blip-Bos'n Extraordinaire" -- RADAR Ops Type)

	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
				ICQ # 31172292
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
	    NET-City Communications....
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 01:43:23 +1200
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz>
Subject: Re: THUDDD anyone?

From:           	"Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net>
Date sent:      	Fri, 3 Sep 1999 05:05:45 -0700

> Ok, I've finished most of the needed changes to the 
> new THUDDD site (http://THUDDD.homepage.com/).  
> What's say we reopen the voting on the last 
> competition (THUDDD 9).  NB:  If you want your vote 
> counted, you will need to vote again (old votes have 
> been lost) or cast one now.  The URL for voting is 
> http://THUDDD.homepage.com/thuddd9.html.

I love the seeing THUDDD revived. Just one minor point.
Since GURPS is now a valid design system, might it not
be an idea to give the TLs on the website in both Traveller
and GURPS terms?


Andrew etc
http://users.netaccess.co.nz/amv/
    Listening to way too much Dave Brubeck

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 10:01:35 -0400
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com>
Subject: Re: I'm back....

Leonard Erickson wrote:
> 2. On an airless planet, near the downport. These won't be weathered,
>    though vaccuum damage (especially vacuum welding) is likely. In any
>    case crawling around in airless hulks that have been partially
>    stripped by folks in a hurry isn't exactly safe.

I have this funny image in my head...

The characters head over the the junk crater looking for a fairly small, yet
highly essential part, say, the size of a baseball, on an small, airless,
low-g planetoid. After picking around for a few hours, one player spots the
part. It's sitting on top of a big pile of other stuff near the edge of the
whole sprawling junk pile. He rushes over, picks it up...

and the whole damn pile comes up along with it, as every single piece of metal
on the whole damn crater is vacc welded together. The average 1-g resident may
not even initally notice that he's lifted half the damn junkyard.

Heh. It's just kind if an amusing image.
- --
Ethan Henry                                            egh@klg.com
Java Evangelist, KL Group                       http://www.klg.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 07:11:16 -0700
From: Dave Strebe <strebe@intergate.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: request for URLs with Traveller pictures

Try

http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/welcome_to_the_patinir_belt.htm

and

http://www.bigbailey.com/vspace/traveller_art.htm

"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:

> Now that I'm working at a place with a newer computer than my own, I can
> really appreciate the Traveller artwork that I've been reading about on
> the list.  Would someone please post or email me a few URLs?  Thank you.
>
> --Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 10:18:52 -0400
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: Weather Control

Joseph Coles writes:
<snipped>
>OT: can "weather contol" actually be a possibility?  Or. perhaps more
>accurately, is "weather control" more of a long term "terra-forming" type
>thing?  In other words, more like "increase rain and reduce drought"
>rather than "make day 245 clear and sunny with a temperature in the mid
>70's in a particular city"?  

	I would think that "Weather Control" is pretty general at
	TL of introduction: overall increase/decrease in annual
	rainfall, reduction in number of hurricanes, that sort of
	thing.  At higher TL, I wouldn't rule out day-to-day
	determination of weather conditions, but this would entail
	a large investment of resources and some serious politiking
	(adventure seeds, anyone?).

Peez

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 10:28:25 -0400
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: tank:antitank arms race and current TL

Matt Clonfero writes:
<snipped>
>Well, let's take the 88mm as the standard At gun for 1945. This weapon
>won't even scare a modern MBT - even at fairly close range. However,
>it'll go clean through the armour of lesser modern fighting vehicles
>(like a Bradley or Warrior). but 1945-1999 is more than one TL jump -
>IIRC it's TL5 guns versus TL8 vehicles.

	Are you talking CT TL's?  We are not up to making the kind
	of interplanetary ships that should be available at TL 7.
	Of course, the borders of TL's are vague, and perhaps tech 
	has advanced differently than CT imagined, but I would hesitate
	to give Terra c. 1999 TL 8.  My own guess would be early TL 7,
	with the good old 88 mm as late TL 5.  Call it 1.5 TL's.

>Looking at a 1970s tank (TL7) versus a 1990s tank (TL8) - well, you can
>kill the more modern tank with the older one - but something special
>would need to be happening before you got the chance. It's the
>difference between an M60 and M1A1 tank, for example.

	I'm leaning towards making it difficult for a MBT to kill 
	another MBT with a 1 TL advantage, almost impossible with 
	a 2 TL advantage, and impossible under normal circumstances
	with a 3+ TL advantage.  Thanks to all for the input.

Peez

	

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 15:20:08 +0100
From: Andy Coombes <coombes@bcs.org.uk>
Subject: Safety of low berths

<delurk>
From the sources I have to hand (CT:Book 2 and T4), it says that the risk
of dying when travelling low passage is 4- or 11+ (assuming the presence of
a Medic-2 and a healthy passenger). That's either 1 in 6 (16.7%, Russian
Roulette anyone?) or 1 in 12 (8.3%), depending upon which source you are
using. I think this is an unreasonably high level of risk for something
that appears to be an "everyday" technology (i.e. used on many passenger
ships and used by the military for backup crews).

I suspect the public perception of risks is something like the following:

Chance of death  perception
1 in        12   Suicidal/almost certain death
1 in       100   Very dangerous (?getting struck by lightning?)
1 in     1,000   dangerous (?Chernobyl residents?)
1 in    10,000   Risky
1 in   100,000   Acceptable (level of risk for private air
travel/automobile travel)
1 in 1,000,000   Safe (levels risk of current commercial air travel)

The level of risk that I've given for the final two levels is based on
sitting through a number of presentations on risk perception, and are
probably in the right ballpark.

From this, 1 in 12 would be a reasonable level of risk for someone who, at
today's level of technology, gets "cryogenically suspended" with the hope
of later curing their (currently incurable and life-threatening) ailments.
It wouldn't be a reasonable level of risk for any form of transport.

Now, I'm no military historian, but I suspect a military force which took
losses at 17% or 8% would be considered to have taken "heavy damage". If
that's the case, it's hard to imagine how a naval commander could make the
case for a frozen watch. It's also hard imagine anyone choosing to travel
low passage, except _possibly_ refugees, for whom the alternative is
certain death. I don't believe that there are enough refugees to make a
reasonable economic argument for putting low berths on most passenger ships.

So, my questions to the list are:
1) Is the risk of travelling low passage too high?
2) If so, what is a more acceptable risk?
3) If not, how do you justify the high levels of loss in the frozen watch
(how do you recruit for the frozen watch), and how many passengers are
likely to take the risks of low passage travel (and why)?

Andy Coombes.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 10:41:43 -0400
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: inter species relationships

The Roc writes:
<snipped>
>Now it's also acceptable to "relate" to elves (a *NON-human* race --
>alien?) and it was also acceptable to "relate" to halflings, dwarves, >and
gnomes (although, in most such games, it is not possible to cross
>fertilise with the non-elves, or even non-orcs!!), non-human, but these
>normally vanilla-straight folk I know would not think twice about
>roleplaying a romance with such races.

	Bear in mind that fantasy settings do not necessarily 
	recognize the "species" concept, and that elves, dwarves,
	etc. are really humans with certain physical and 
	psychological traits exagerated.

>Then they watch shows such as StarTrek and see those buxom Klingon
>sisters and say things like, "I wouldn't mind getting off with either >(or
both) of those!" and we all have a laugh.  But in serious >conversation,
they will say they weren't joking.

	It takes more than bumps on the head or funny ears to
	hide the "humanness" of these "aliens."

>Yet, if they talk of Traveller, the thought would never occur to them to
>have a romance with a Vargr (or a droyne, Aslan, or centaur for that
>matter).  Where should such lines be drawn?  Should such a choice be
>based upon sophontolgy prerequisites?  Simple looks/image?

	Vargr are more alien than Klingons, but even they are pretty
	human.  Still, I expect that only a minority of humans would
	be interested in sex with Vargr.

>I think I've seen the odd image of cat-like creatures with human shapes
>that look quite "sexy" in their own right (witnessed by Japanese >cartoons
and Sorayama's "Hyper Illustrations") that could inspire the "I >wouldn't
mind getting off with those Klingons..." type of reactions.

	These images have been specifically formed to look sexy to
	humans.

>I would assume that some cultures would take a dim view of, say an Aslan
>in an Aslan culture, marrying a human.  But are the majority of
>worlds/cultures across the Traveller galaxy close minded to such "mixed"
>marriages?  They have had a long time to adapt although, even now, I
>understand there are still those in Australia and the US (and other
>places) that frown on a "white/black" or "white/yellow" marriage as
"un->godly" and/or "wrong."  Mind you, our culture is a lot younger than
the >Imperium and it's surrounds.  I wonder?

	Given the Imperiums penchant for manipulating public opinion
	(c.f. attitudes towards psionics), it would not surprise me
	if Vargr were generally looked down on, and mixed marriages
	regarded with distaste.  In any event, I would expect that
	such marriages would be rare, but who knows...

Peez

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1051
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